I love Church
17 Jan 2008
There I said it.
I sometimes wonder if at present that kind of statement puts you up there with the ‘crazies’. Kind of like saying Margaret Thatcher was a warm gentle person, or that Tony Blair’s faith helped his political policy making.
I’ve written before that it currently seems much more ‘authentic’ to leave/criticise/doubt/be bored with church. Any confession of a high view of church, and love of church immediately paints you as an institutionalized reactionary conservative, blind to the problems of church.
I’m not talking about the idea of church, were we can all affirm the imagining of a better church. I’m talking about the church as it has existed and will continue to to in history.
The church messed up by you and me.
There is a naive sentimentalism about church, that is dangerous and leaves the church unable to change, with it’s fingers in it’s ears to any critique. But there is also a bilious cynicism about church, that finds it’s ongoing expression in a pathological idealised post-church narrative. And lots of stuff in between.
My location on the emerging church discussion, doesn’t come from being bored with church (I didn’t grow up in church), a dislike of worship aesthetics (there is much I don’t like), or the loss of faith in a post-modern world (I’ve nearly lost mine a few times).
It comes from a love of the church.
Church saved me. It introduced Jesus to me. It challenged me to hand my life, my basis for living and being over to Jesus, and to explore that with other Christians.
It brought healing to my life, through loving relationships, the presence of Jesus, examples of what it meant to live as a human being and as a father and husband (without alcohol and violence), with a new family of wonderful relationships.
It encouraged me to learn and grow and find out God’s plans for my life, and to try to locate that in the scheme of eternity and God’s kingdom.
It got in my face about the need to attend to my character, and take the pain of my past to Jesus.
And yes it has bored me, frustrated me, and been hopelessly out of step with my world so many times. And more than that it has regularly hurt me, abused me, tried my faith, and caused to me to doubt and question.
And yet I love and believe in it even more than ever.
Tagged: Church, Emerging-Church
26 comments
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Comment by Thomas E. Ward
3.04 pm on 17 Jan 2008
Me too!
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Comment by Laura Anne
4.48 pm on 17 Jan 2008
Me three!!
It’s why I keep going with it – the church is literally my family! I love it!
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Comment by josh
5.48 pm on 17 Jan 2008
i think i’m somewhere in the middle. while i still love the “church” and believe the community of god living the way of jesus is instrumental to helping make the world a better place and in connecting people to and with god, i have to say, i never had the church play that positive of a role in my life.
and that’s not me just trying to be revisionist. i never got to experience what you’re talking about. i guess my tradition of coming out of the evangelical megachurch plays a role in my perspective these days, but it never helped my relationship. it never healed them. it never healed me. it never played a restorative role in my life. that’s starting to change now, but i get envious of other people sometimes where the church has played such a substantial role in shaping them for the better. i just haven’t been that lucky.
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Comment by Jason
8.15 am on 18 Jan 2008
Sorry to hear that Josh, but maybe you get to be that to others?
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Comment by Helen
8.20 pm on 17 Jan 2008
I used to love church but it doesn’t work for me anymore.
I realize other people love it. I wouldn’t want to stop them from being part of church.
Re: Laura Anne’s comment – I hoped it would be my family but it didn’t work out that way.
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Comment by Laura Anne
9.50 pm on 19 Jan 2008
I’m gutted to hear that Helen.
However, I will say that part of what I mean by family is that your family isn’t perfect – my ‘blood’ family really hurt me and find them difficult to get on with a lot of the time – I still love them, and know that when it comes down to it they’d try to support me it what ways they can.
My church family are similar. They hurt me a lot (and I do mean a lot), but God really challenged me to stick with that particular church…after a few years, they really did become my family. We still hurt each other, and we didn’t always agree, and some stuff really angered me still. But they were my family.
I hope you find a place where you can be part of a family. It does take sacrifice, perseverence and patience though from all sides…I think I’d be weirded out a bit if it was easy mind you…!
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Comment by Helen
12.20 am on 20 Jan 2008
Thanks Laura Anne.
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Comment by missionseeker
1.00 am on 18 Jan 2008
Assembling with the saints always has its challenges. The struggles of Eph. 6:12 keeps me praying that no matter what Satan puts in my way, I have the power to tell Satan to get behind me. The snow kept everyone at the congregation house bound about four weeks ago here in Michigan and I missed the church brethren so much. Sometimes I feel unworthy to get so much love from my brethren. But, at times I feel that there are struggles in all of us. Demons and wickedness struggle in the heavenly places. When the Lord adds us to His church, the gates of Hell cannot prevail against us. Our sinful natures do cause some weaknesses. The church can give Him glory if we are determined to love one another when we assemble and when we pray at home. I love the Kingdom of God in all its purity and pray for my brethren. We all have faults to confess. Forgiving one another is so important too. We all need Jesus and each other. Mel
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Comment by Mak
3.12 am on 18 Jan 2008
I think perhaps it’s ill advised to start something like this by polarizing yourself from those who don’t share your feelings. There are very real very important reasons why many people don’t love church.
Having said that, I love church – MY church, THE church, churchES – and I think you might be surprised at how many emerging Christians share your feelings, contrary to the first couple comments you made. Although, maybe it’s different in the UK *shrug* or maybe it’s cuz I’m a missionary and run in church planting/missionary circles
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Comment by Jason Clark
7.44 am on 18 Jan 2008
Hi Mak, your response illustrates what I was talking about :-)
If my post was ‘church sucks’ would you have commented, ‘hang on it works for many of us, and we don’t share your feelings, and that’s polarising’.
I’m not naive Mak…just wondering why saying ‘I love church’ immediately makes me polarising, despite all the caveats I made.
I don’t need persuading how crap the church is, can be and has been…that’s not the issue.
And just wondering why you think I am saying something against emerging church christians, as if my declaration separates me from them.
My closest friends who love church are in the emerging church…so I’m wondering why when I didn’t make that demarcation why you did?
Cheers, Jase
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Comment by Helen
4.06 pm on 18 Jan 2008
Jason, speaking for myself, I didn’t feel you polarized yourself by sharing your own feelings about church.
You didn’t invalidate the people who don’t share your feelings. You gave them a comments box to list all the reasons they don’t love church :)
I liked reading about what church has meant to you. It’s neat to see how signficant it’s been in your life.
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Comment by Liam Byrnes
1.16 pm on 18 Jan 2008
Me Four, OH sorry, its become more than that now. Well, I am so glad to read a very balanced, informed, and concise account of this, you express my inner groans and hesitation as clear sentiments Thanks. Liam (Abdn Vineyard)
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Comment by Mak
9.31 pm on 18 Jan 2008
that’s not what I was saying at all Jason. And actually yes, I think saying that you hate church *is* polarizing and i’ve said as much in other blogs.
I guess I just got the feeling that you were lumping emergings into this “we hate the church” category and I was wondering why you would do that… but if that’s not what you meant then problem solved :)
There are a handful of folks right now (and deep church folks are in that group I think) who are very intent on spreading the love of “the church” and I think that is SO GOOD and SO HEALTHY but I’m not sure the best way of doing it is by saying that emerging folks talk too much about hating church.
…that’s all :)
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Comment by Mak
9.33 pm on 18 Jan 2008
“And just wondering why you think I am saying something against emerging church christians, as if my declaration separates me from them.”
that was exactly my point, it sounded to me like you were trying to separate yourself – saying “you all hate church, I love church, why is that such a problem?” now, you didn’t say that exactly, I understand that, I’m just sharing how it sounds to me…as an emerging christian who loves church, leads a church, is a missionary, and goes to a liturgical church, the whole bit
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Comment by RODNEY NEILL
12.18 am on 19 Jan 2008
hello all,
During my Christian faith journey I have been through periods where I have treasured, appreciated, detested and been disillusioned by involvement in church – for me it has beeh a whole range of reactions during different episodes in my life.
Recently I have rejoined a very good local church from the charismatic/evangelical stream ( at one stage in my life I was convinced I would never be caught dead in this type of church again) – I would say I appreciate church yet at times feel fustrated by it as well ( my personal bugbear is long-winded sermons)
Having spent some time recently relating to emerging Christians many carry the baggage of personal hurt/disillusionment from previous involvement in church – they need space to work these things out
Rodney
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Comment by Paul
1.52 am on 19 Jan 2008
maybe it’s a love/hate relationship? as you say Jase we can love it in a way romantic and ideal or hate it cos we’ve suffered in our experience of it?
Maybe the reality is like a relationship – sometimes we find the strength to leave an abusive relationship but do we give up on all relationships for ever?
And Maggie was very warm and loving, she cried when she left office you know ;)
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Comment by Graeme Smith
11.34 am on 19 Jan 2008
Thanks for sharing your thoughts Jason!
I too love Church, although I admit to being frustrated by much that goes on within its walls and by how little it sometimes makes a difference outside!
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Comment by Mak
3.43 pm on 19 Jan 2008
well said paul – all good relationships hold that tension I think.
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Comment by Sivin
3.42 pm on 20 Jan 2008
Thanks Jason, for this post. :-)
“Any confession of a high view of church, and love of church immediately paints you as an institutionalized reactionary conservative, blind to the problems of church.”
as someone deeply involved in the church – institutionally and organically in all sorts of forms … sometimes I wonder whether it would be better that I pack my bags and do something else.
But then Church is not just about the mess isn’t it, it’s about the mystery of how the Spirit is hovering over our chaos and later we hear, “Let there be light” … and recreation happens!
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Comment by Marc
2.34 pm on 22 Jan 2008
I love church but don’t tell my pastor;)
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Comment by Steve Grove
4.14 am on 4 Feb 2008
I love the church; in part because Jesus loves the church and died for her. It is the only thing He left on earth to continue His ministry. It would be great, too… except for the people. I can hardly wait to get older so I can see it from that perspective.
I remember the idealism I had out of college, and the realization that people are flawed. Coming to church doesn’t and never did change a person; only an encounter with God did that. I have met crappy Christians, crappy atheists and crappy Muslims. I have come to understand that when I look at the church, I need to see it through Jesus’ eyes. I had an encounter quite a few years ago, but the best part is He has never left me, and I continue to have encounters with Him every day.
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Comment by Helen
1.02 pm on 4 Feb 2008
Here’s an interesting pro-church article (in my opinion):
Orbiting the conventional church
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Comment by Steve Grove
5.22 pm on 4 Feb 2008
I read the article, Helen, and left some comments there. I don’t think the model he susggests is pro-church. It may sound good, but in practicality it has been going on since Jesus walked the earth and crowds followed Him looking for what they could get, but were nebulous enough to leave without comment when issues arose. The church needs movers and shakers. we are in a spiritual warfare, and we need people willing to jump in the thick of the fray and make a difference (Galatians 6).
I wonder in the years to come what will happen to 2 generations; the old and the young. Gordon McDonald’s “Who Stole My Church” puts the onus on the older people to adapt and change to the middle generations of Christians. I don’t see the younger church running out to minister to seniors, in part because they are too busy doing what and how they want. A plus of larger churches is concentrated children’s program. Who will reach them effectively in a house church?
We did pretty good at outreach with children, but lousy at discipleship. I think that is one big reason why the emergent church looks like it does – all these nominal kids were not challenged to be real in Jesus grew up and found church forms empty as a result. They left in high school or college, wandered for a decade or two, and are now coming back to Jesus. But they react to the form they found useless for growth as kids – they want something different. They are also a generation of privilege. They were given whatever they wanted. They are used to shopping around for the perfect “thing”, including church. Being in orbit makes sense to them. Not so much for me…
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Comment by Derek
5.24 pm on 26 Oct 2008
I don’t know what the church is anymore, seems more like a bunch of people in one click or another, loving themselves and patting each other on the back – while others are cold shouldered and ignored. I don’t love the church anymore, cos it’s full of people who wear masks, say all the right things, but never actually reach anyone. I don’t love the church, cos it’s full of noise and committees, happy clappers, pastor worshippers and money grabbers – it just doesn’t attract. I’m not bitter, but I’m no fool, if there’s no love, then it’s no church!!!
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Comment by denise santos
2.08 pm on 10 Aug 2009
The church is not what changes our life its Jesus who changes us.That’s the problem today with most churches.The church is a good place but its just a start ,or a tool that God uses for the Kingdom and the people.I Believe GOD is doing something great. He is awaking us up, and the truth shall set us truly FREE from the religious spirit that has put us in bondage. Their is only one God and he is taking back what belongs to him! So take heart ,God see and knows our heart and victory is his! I will pray for you and me and the true body of church that extends out side of the four walls of the religious church, for we our the church all the body of believers!
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Comment by Tony Mason
3.04 pm on 24 Aug 2009
10 years I’ve been a Christian..I’ve been in 2 and have been spiritually abused both times..I thought the church was a joke..but I have a confession..I still love the church..it is where I meet people barracking for the same team..the same God..my Jesus who forgives me loves and barracks for me.
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