What books are you willing to read?
28 Jun 2007
What I’m willing to read (and what I do read) has changed a lot over the last decade.
The biggest reason for the change is: I’m less afraid that what I read will adversely affect me.
I’m curious about all of you. What are you willing to read?
If you’re a Christian…
- Would you read a book about atheism?
- If so, would you rather read one by an atheist or a Christian?
- Would you read a book about Christianity by an atheist?
If you’re not a Christian…
- Would you read a book about Christianity?
- If so, would you rather read one by a Christian or someone who isn’t a Christian?
- Would you read a book about your beliefs/non-beliefs by a Christian?
31 comments
Trackback
Comment by Dean Whisnant
5.21 am on 28 Jun 2007
Definately a Christian … So …
Yes, I would read a book about atheism or any other theism. I find it important to hear the real deal from people of other (or non) religions, and not just what my mom, my pastor, my spouse, Jason, or any other Christian might tell me about their religion (or non).
So many times we hear a horrid slant regarding “outsiders”, from within. Which almost makes me scared to read much from within.
I think it’s also important to see what others say about Christianity. BEcause it is only through their lenses that we can learn to appreciate what our history of negative talk has shaped their view of us to be.
Comment by Helen
2.59 pm on 28 Jun 2007
Thanks Dean.
Hearing the ‘real deal’ is important to me too – that’s another reason I like to read what people say about themselves rather than what people like me say.
It was convenient to read quick summaries by people like me but over time I discovered that they tended to be inaccurate. I don’t see a reason to think people like me couldn’t accurately describe what other people believe, but in practice I found that they generally didn’t.
I like your point about how seeing what others say helps us realize the connection between what we say and how they perceive us.
Comment by Dean Whisnant
12.29 am on 29 Jun 2007
Helen,
I hope I didn’t come across as saying “we” can’t ever accurately represent the faith of others, but it just seems so many of “us” tend to make mistakes.
Seeing what others say about us has been important for me throughout my life. Not that I need everyone to think that I am the cat’s meow, but it is a good thermometer of how my statements and actions affect those around me. Am I an instrument of peace? Or am I causing strife?
I recently reconciled with a high school girlfriend whom I hadn’t spoken with for some 20 years. I had made many terrible mistakes in our relationship and seeing some of her thoughts and feelings about who I was in the end times of our relationship was a huge eye opener.
One thing we both took out of that is that she had some serious misconceptions of actions she had always thought I’d taken after our demise. In the end, we both recognize our faults (mine being the greatest in this case) and we recognize the good that has come from our conversation and clearing up things in a very mature fashion.
If only wee could have these conversations with all that we have offended or been offended by.
Comment by Helen
12.38 am on 29 Jun 2007
Dean, I realize you weren’t saying it’s impossible to represent others’ faith well – only that it often does get misrepresented, in practice.
I think it’s awesome that you reconciled with your high school girlfriend after 20 years – I’m so glad it went well.
Comment by Scott Andreas
7.39 am on 28 Jun 2007
Jason,
Your post caused me to reflect a bit on what I’ve been reading lately. Though it’s entirely unintentional, most of the books have been written by and for believers.
Like you, I would have been wary of reading books about our faith by those who do not identify with it until a couple years ago, but today I find myself more interested in conversations about Christianity rather than many of the dialogues within. There is of course no shortage of monolithic descriptions of “Christianity” from those who feel they’ve been hurt by the church, but frustrating as their lack of nuance may be, I’d suggest that we can learn a lot from our critics.
Anyhow –
1) I’d like to read a book about atheism.
2) By an atheist – or perhaps someone who simply does not claim a religious affiliation and is bothered by the fact that such categories are often imposed upon them (atheist/agnostic/theist/etc.). http://www.lettersfromleavers.com is fascinating.
Cheers!
3) Many of the books I read about Christianity (or religion in general) are written by those who do not identify as Christians. Mark C. Taylor’s work is excellent.
Comment by Helen
3.16 pm on 28 Jun 2007
Hi Scott,
Actually I wrote the post – I’m guest posting – but, no problem :)
I think atheist books (and online writing) can be hard to read for Christians because atheists can be rather brutal about Christianity/Christians/God.
I don’t have extensive knowledge of the literature but I can say that one of the most respectful books I’ve read is I Sold My Soul on Ebay by Hemant Mehta, someone I got to know because of his involvement with Off The Map, which I volunteer for. It’s mostly about his experiences visiting various churches but he also talks about what atheism is and isn’t.
I didn’t post my post intending to advertise atheist books – that didn’t even cross my mind. But I figure I might as well mention the most respectful one I’ve read. Anyway if you want to get a free idea about him you can take a look at his blog, friendly atheist
Our first Off The Map blog was set up for him and a respectful conversation between Christians and atheists developed there, which people who stuck around generally agreed was an interesting helpful learning experience about each other. We currently have two blogs intended to facilitate respectful conversation between people with different beliefs/nonbeliefs – Conversation at the Edge (hosted by me and an atheist) and eBay atheist (hosted by me, an atheist (not Hemant) and a conservative Christian)
(My apologies if this is too much ‘advertising’)
Comment by Scott Andreas
7.43 am on 28 Jun 2007
(Sorry about the mix-up in the last few lines above!)
Comment by brett jordan
8.52 am on 28 Jun 2007
If it’s good, I’ll read it.
Comment by Matt Little
4.14 pm on 28 Jun 2007
Brett,
How do you know if it’s going to be good UNTIL you read it?
Or, would you be going on the opinion of others (who possibly also haven’t read it)?
Comment by Helen
7.41 pm on 28 Jun 2007
Great questions Matt!
Brett, my response is the same as Matt’s :-)
Comment by brett jordan
11.56 am on 3 Jul 2007
hi matt and helen… you make a very good point, and i guess it is a mixture of recommendation from people i trust (i.e. i know they’re read it :-), and starting to read something that looks interesting, and deciding as i go along… and, of course, sometimes i read stuff that i don’t enjoy because i think that it is important that i know what they’re talking about!
Comment by Helen
2.21 pm on 3 Jul 2007
Hi Brett, thanks for your answer. I am similarly influenced in what I read. And like you I also try to read some things I don’t enjoy because I think it’s important I know what they are saying. (I do have to be careful it doesn’t push my buttons too much – I find somethings can easily trigger ‘button pushing overload’ these days)
Comments won’t nest below this level.
Reply here
Comment by fernando
9.14 am on 28 Jun 2007
Except for an exceptional two year spell, I’ve seldom managed to get the explicitly Christian book count much above 50%. I tend to get a lot from reading depictions of the faith and the church penned by non-Christians, though the current spate of evangelical atheism is a little tiresome. If I wanted to understand another religion or specifically non-Christian outlook I would always head to an author from that tradition over a “Christian repackaging and apologetic.”
Comment by Helen
7.40 pm on 28 Jun 2007
Hi Fernando, sorry, I must have missed your comment earlier.
Like you I prefer reading authors in the tradition I’m learning about to Christian repackaged versions (as I’ve said elsewhere on here, the main reason is, I’ve found the repackaging oversimplistic/inaccurate)
Comment by Lindsay Cullen
9.56 am on 28 Jun 2007
I tend to like reading books which challenge me, so I’ve read a string of books by atheists recently by Dan Dennett, Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris and I plan to pick up Christopher Hitchens. And for me, it’s less that I think that what I read won’t change my faith, as it is that I’m not afraid of my faith changing. If I was, it wouldn’t be faith…
Comment by Helen
3.21 pm on 28 Jun 2007
Lindsay, would you recommend those books to other Christians or not?
I think fear is a big issue – I used to be very afraid that what atheists wrote could hurt my faith. (So I didn’t read what they wrote, yet, ironically, my faith broke within the Christian system, without help from atheists, when I began to wonder “Why is it so easy for Christians to be mean? And why is it so hard for them to notice when they’re being mean?” So not reading atheist books didn’t help save my faith. And this of course is my subjective experience with Christians – I am not trying to assert that my perception of ‘mean’ or whether Christians are mean agrees with everyone else’s)
When my faith was broken anyway – so I had nothing to lose – I read lots of other books. Now I read widely – I read conservative Christian books sometimes. I’ve reviewed at least three on my blog this year.
Comment by Lindsay Cullen
3.03 pm on 29 Jun 2007
I think that it would absolutely be my ‘end point’, my goal for a fellow Christian that s/he could read such books and think through the issues – finding both the points of agreement and disagreement. But perhaps I’d be cautious on a pastoral level to simply ‘throw someone in the deep end’ without some preparation. Having said that, I’m worried that perhaps I’m slipping into the kind of clerical patronising attitude which assumes that somehow *I* am needed to mediate the truth to others or prepare them for the truth. Maybe like Peter says, every Christian needs to be prepared to give an answer to those who ask for the reason for the hope that we have – and maybe that needs to include answering the hard questions of a Richard Dawkins or Daniel Dennett.
Comment by Helen
3.33 am on 1 Jul 2007
Thanks for your response, Lindsay. I appreciate that you want to protect but not overprotect people.
I think it’s good to be prepared to give an answer – but I think tone is as important as content. A simple “I don’t know” can connect better with someone of a different viewpoint than an explanation which that someone perceives as delivered with an attitude of superiority.
Comment by steven hamilton
11.23 am on 28 Jun 2007
such provocation helen…i love it! speaking merely for myself, i have always sought to engage my discernment, thus early on i was unafraid of books beyond the pale of others reading lists. i would read a book about atheism, and truly i have tried, but they are sooo boring. much better to have a conversation with an atheist (which i highly recommend). i was actully delighted back in march of this year (st. patrick’s day to be exact) i was the vineyard central in norwood, ohio at a small-ish gathering of friends, and one of our friends from san diego had brought a friend of his who was a devout atheist. what great conversation, with a lot of mutual love and respect and a couple of tense moments for some.
anyway, thanks for being the catalyst that you are helen…
peace
Comment by Helen
3.26 pm on 28 Jun 2007
Thanks Steven!
I can understand where you’re coming from about books. In fact I will be honest – I’ve been putting off reading The God Delusion because of thinking it’s going to be boring. I just started it and happily I’m finding it much more readable than I expected. Even so that doesn’t mean you’d think it’s not boring :)
Like you, I think conversations between people with different beliefs are fascinating; that’s why I host the Off The Map blogs that I mentioned above. And that’s why I’m leading a workshop at the Emergent Midwest Gathering next month, aimed at helping Christians and other people be better at having great conversations with each other.
(Regarding the Dawkins book: even though he implies he could be much meaner than he is, I think he could have been less mean – not that he would have wanted to be)
Comment by Kathi
11.47 am on 28 Jun 2007
I guess “purpose” comes to mind.
For any strong Christian, reading books regarding other belief systems for the purpose of understanding and reaching those in those systems is – well – just smart. (Tho IMHO it’s smarter to sit down over coffee with a real human and engage in real dialogue so you can learn the way it really works)
I don’t think it’s necessary to gain explicit details on any religion in order to witness. A Christian does not need to know how to cast spells in order to witness to a neopagan.
I’m greatly disturbed by a trend within the Church where people become curious and start reading about other beliefs with fascination. Some of these folks are in a season of discontent, and others are just – fascinated. This is dangerous and I’ve seen some slip into sin unawares that they were headed there.
Comment by Helen
3.28 pm on 28 Jun 2007
Thanks for your comment Kathi.
I’m wondering – do you think there’s a risk of people’s purpose inadvertently changing? Might they start reading in order to be appropriately informed, then find themselves getting too interested and then their purpose shifts?
Comment by Helen
3.29 pm on 28 Jun 2007
A general comment: I’m encouraged by the comments here, to see that you’re open to reading books by other people about their beliefs/nonbeliefs (or by others, about what you believe).
Comment by seekingsomething
3.36 pm on 28 Jun 2007
Back in the days when I called myself a Christian, (I was younger then and no older than an average University student), we were gently warned against getting too interested in books written by ‘non-Christians’ as if it would hurt our faith.
Like you Helen, I lost my faith for reasons relating to my experience of Church, rather than relating to any book that I read. I don’t really understand why some Christians feel that reading or exploring different beliefs and ideas can be dangerous. I’d like to understand this better.
I don’t read vast amounts of non-fiction these days, but if I do then it has to be (1) well written; (2) thoughtful and intelligent; and (3) a subject matter that grabs me.
Dawkins and CS Lewis are both examples of recent authors that have appealed to me. It doesn’t matter to me that neither of their belief system map entirely onto my own. In their own way, each has helped me to think more deeply and more clearly about issues that interest me.
Comment by Helen
3.46 pm on 28 Jun 2007
Hi ss, I love this:
That’s my experience too, when I read what articulate authors have to say (whatever their viewpoint).
Comment by Matt Little
4.28 pm on 28 Jun 2007
I’ve read Derren Brown’s Tricks of the Mind. For any who aren’t familiar – he’s a British TV personality who combines “magic, psychology, misdirection and showmanship”, and in his book he refers to The God Delusion and others and states that he hopes atheism will grow. His book is partly autobiographical, in that he tells his “testimony” of how he used to be a Christian, and now isn’t. His conclusions come from his reading of material about the reliability of the resurrection plus an obvious frustration with the shallow irrational thinking that often characterises modern Christianity.
I also plan to finish reading God Delusion (I read the first two chapters a couple of months ago)
I’m a follower of Jesus but my position is that:
(1) if I want to comment on something it lacks integrity to come from a place of ignorance about that topic
(2) if I want to engage in meaningful conversation with people of different beliefs then I have to research what they believe first i.e. not come from a place of ignorance.
The most frustrating thing about trying to be an effective, compassionate, understanding, genuine Christian is that too many of my brothers and sisters comment on things “of the world” before they have really bothered to try and understand them.
For example, I don’t believe any Christian who’s not bothered to read Harry Potter/Lord of the Rings/Narnia/His Dark Materials/The God Delusion/The Qu’ran are qualified to comment from a place of understanding. They’re just speaking from their prejudices or from someone else’s understanding. Hence, I don’t want to read a book about Islam written by a Christian, I want to meet real Muslims and find out from them what they believe.
The same applies to stuff like arguments on evolution. Too many Christians have not even bothered to look at scientific papers about the subject, they’re just spouting what some pastor has told them.
Comment by Helen
7.49 pm on 28 Jun 2007
Matt I’ve experienced the same frustration as you over Christians who comment on things without taking much time to understand them.
To be fair, it’s not just Christians who do this. It takes time and effort to really understand something, so I suppose there will always be the temptation to try to get by on Cliff Notes or someone else’s summary.
When I read Harry Potter it struck me right away as a school-story-with-an-original-twist (I was born and raised in England and had read lots of stories about English boarding schools – I’m not sure Americans would pick that up so easily).
When I read His Dark Materials I winced at the depiction of the church but overall I loved it because it thought-provokingly made good and evil things which had to be very carefully discerned. If only Christians would teach this to children – that good and evil aren’t always superficially obvious! That careful thought and discernment is necessary to be sure we are on the right side and building the right kingdom. Christians teach adults that Satan is subtle and clever but then they seem to forget this when they teach children or write books in which everything is black and white and obvious. That’s not how life is.
Comment by Paul
8.53 am on 29 Jun 2007
Hi Helen, great Qs and a great conversation.
My answers would be yes, unless i am going for an explicit christian author, most of the time i have no idea of the religious views when i’m browsing in the book store or libary. I’m shallow and go for fun looking covers, interesting titles and glowing reviews on the back :)
Comment by Helen
11.24 am on 29 Jun 2007
Hi Paul,
You must make the marketing folks very happy :)
So, did you already read The God Delusion by Dawkins since it has such a nice shiny cover? ;-)
Seriously, how has that worked out for you? Have you found some great books that way? Do you ever read books because someone you respect like Jason recommends them?
I like to browse the bookstore too. I read the back covers to see who recommended a book as well as why; I read the inside flap to get an idea about it; I also like to read some of the inside of the book to get an idea of tone, style, etc. I have bought books I’ve never heard of, by authors I’ve never heard of, because I liked the page I read when I flipped it open. And I’ve rarely been disappointed in the rest of the book when I liked the page I read in the book store.
Sometimes I read books just to know what everyone else is raving about – in other words, so I can join in their conversation in a more informed way. That’s why I read Blue Like Jazz. It was ok – it had some good things in. I thought the author seemed to be a kind person who cared about others – I liked that.
I didn’t get why it was in a weird voice (style) I’d call ‘baby-talk’ – like a child wrote it. (For example, “I have this friend Brian” – why not say his whole name, Brian McLaren? Grown ups use who whole names). That annoyed me after a while since I knew he wasn’t a child.
The other thing that was weird was, the author didn’t have any money and wasn’t famous when he wrote it, but his life must be different now he’s a best-selling author lots of Christians rave about. I kept thinking “How has that changed him?” Anyway, overall I was glad I read it so I could have my own opinion about a book people talked about a lot.
Comment by Paul
11.56 am on 29 Jun 2007
i’m reading a book jase recommended to me, it’s so dense it’s taken me nearly a yt to get 2/3rds of the way thru! altho it is a very good bk :)
i haven’t red velvet elvis, i know a lot of people rave about it but it just never seems a book i have conected wth – but then maybe if the book was velvet, lol
i’ve come across a few good books, i’m kinda a grazer, i like to pikthem up, flick through them, buy them if they look good. sometimes they are great and sometimes they are ok.
Comment by Helen
12.22 pm on 29 Jun 2007
Hi Paul, it sounds like some of your reading decisions are made similarly to mine. I can believe a book recommended by Jason would take a while to read (he seems to read books with a lot of content!)
I don’t think I could get into Velvet Elvis either – I flicked through it a couple of times but it didn’t seem to be my sort of book.
I bought Simply Christian at the same time as Blue Like Jazz but then I couldn’t read it (even though I have read a lot of NT Wright in the past). I have a really hard time with the Bible and apologetics. I try to look up passages before I say things about them to make sure I am remembering them right. But I can’t sit and read it.
Steve Sjogren (the Servant Evangelism guy) sent me a copy of his book Outflow free and asked me what I thought. It was really kind of him and I did my best to read it but that was really hard too.
I’m not exactly sure why…I think it’s because these books remind me of a) How Christians tend to assume things which I have questions about b) they tend not to understand my questions c) I have searched and asked and they have never given me good answers d) I could never resolve all that e) it has been quite hurtful and invalidating. And even though I have done my best to forgive people, it still has the potential to make me angry and upset and I really really don’t want to go there. So…even trying to read them sets off this big internal emotional thing that doesn’t seem worth it. And last time I said to a pastor “I can’t read the Bible” his response was so invalidating my counselor told me not to interact with him any more for the sake of my mental health.
I don’t see why it matters since I remember what the Bible says and whenever I look something up quickly to check, I find I did remember it right (or 99% right).
So there are a few things I have trouble reading. But otherwise I do read widely.
Comments are now closed.