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	<title>Comments on: Horizon: Human Version&#160;2.0</title>
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	<description>Trying to make safe spaces for diverse and healthy conversations about church.</description>
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		<title>By: ZooMuse</title>
		<link>http://jasonclark.ws/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&amp;feed=Articles+%28RSS2%29&amp;seed=http%3A%2F%2Fjasonclark.ws%2F2006%2F10%2F25%2Fhorizon-human-version-20%2F&amp;seed_title=Horizon%3A+Human+Version%26%23160%3B2.0/comment-page-1/#comment-6835</link>
		<dc:creator>ZooMuse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Oct 2006 15:10:25 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I am reminded of a poster I saw in Germany: Der Mensch plannt...und Gott Lacht.

A person plans...and God laughs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am reminded of a poster I saw in Germany: Der Mensch plannt&#8230;und Gott Lacht.</p>
<p>A person plans&#8230;and God laughs.</p>
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		<title>By: Simon S</title>
		<link>http://jasonclark.ws/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&amp;feed=Articles+%28RSS2%29&amp;seed=http%3A%2F%2Fjasonclark.ws%2F2006%2F10%2F25%2Fhorizon-human-version-20%2F&amp;seed_title=Horizon%3A+Human+Version%26%23160%3B2.0/comment-page-1/#comment-6834</link>
		<dc:creator>Simon S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Oct 2006 07:08:36 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Horizon always sensationalizes things! All that was shown was the equivalent of a TV remote control. You can control things with your brain. Great, something less to lose in the sofa when I want to switch channels!

There&#039;s still no reporting of any understanding of how emergent features such as consciousness comes from a group of brain cells firing electrical / chemical signals at each other. 

An interesting question is whether machine consciousness (if it happens) modelled on our own will have a need for God!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Horizon always sensationalizes things! All that was shown was the equivalent of a TV remote control. You can control things with your brain. Great, something less to lose in the sofa when I want to switch channels!</p>
<p>There&#8217;s still no reporting of any understanding of how emergent features such as consciousness comes from a group of brain cells firing electrical / chemical signals at each other. </p>
<p>An interesting question is whether machine consciousness (if it happens) modelled on our own will have a need for God!</p>
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		<title>By: ZooMuse</title>
		<link>http://jasonclark.ws/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&amp;feed=Articles+%28RSS2%29&amp;seed=http%3A%2F%2Fjasonclark.ws%2F2006%2F10%2F25%2Fhorizon-human-version-20%2F&amp;seed_title=Horizon%3A+Human+Version%26%23160%3B2.0/comment-page-1/#comment-6832</link>
		<dc:creator>ZooMuse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Oct 2006 12:41:42 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I have been recently thinking about the Tower of Babel, though not sure why! I wonder what those engaged in the building process thought? I wonder what those around as observers thought and felt as they watched this go up. I wonder if there is any correlation between Babel and Singularity. If so, what will be the 21st century equivalent of God&#039;s response at Babel? If we were to graph the process of tehcnological advancement, and then overlay it on a graph of the increased moral degradation we are experiencing (Government is now talking about prison ships to deal with overcrowding; can&#039;t transport them to Australia any longer!), we would see any correlation between the two graphs? The moral issues you refer to in your post are the current issue of nuclear power in Iran and North Korea, writ larger and more frightening. We&#039;re not doing well with what we have. Human irresponsibility and moral equivocation (in the face of those who think humankind is improving) stands in the shadowy background of our increasing ability to &quot;rule over&quot; the earth. Perhaps this is why we&#039;re cuationed in Hebrews to consider how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds, as well as to encourage one another, and all the more, as we see the day of Christ drawing near.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have been recently thinking about the Tower of Babel, though not sure why! I wonder what those engaged in the building process thought? I wonder what those around as observers thought and felt as they watched this go up. I wonder if there is any correlation between Babel and Singularity. If so, what will be the 21st century equivalent of God&#8217;s response at Babel? If we were to graph the process of tehcnological advancement, and then overlay it on a graph of the increased moral degradation we are experiencing (Government is now talking about prison ships to deal with overcrowding; can&#8217;t transport them to Australia any longer!), we would see any correlation between the two graphs? The moral issues you refer to in your post are the current issue of nuclear power in Iran and North Korea, writ larger and more frightening. We&#8217;re not doing well with what we have. Human irresponsibility and moral equivocation (in the face of those who think humankind is improving) stands in the shadowy background of our increasing ability to &#8220;rule over&#8221; the earth. Perhaps this is why we&#8217;re cuationed in Hebrews to consider how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds, as well as to encourage one another, and all the more, as we see the day of Christ drawing near.</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen Garner</title>
		<link>http://jasonclark.ws/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&amp;feed=Articles+%28RSS2%29&amp;seed=http%3A%2F%2Fjasonclark.ws%2F2006%2F10%2F25%2Fhorizon-human-version-20%2F&amp;seed_title=Horizon%3A+Human+Version%26%23160%3B2.0/comment-page-1/#comment-6828</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen Garner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Oct 2006 05:45:40 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I&#039;d agree with you, Brodie.

An even then, the ethical teaching people get is slanted towards ethics that come out of &quot;personal morality&quot; - so sexual ethics and &quot;what would Jesus do?&quot; in my personal situation. Little in the way of social ethics.

If technology is the &quot;air that we breathe&quot; in Western society then a more widespread approach to thinking about that environment is needed. And the church *should* be able to draw upon not just theologians but its own practitioners at the coal face in health, business, politics, education and science/technology to raise issues and help educate the church (and church leadership and theologians etc.) about our world.

Still, most engagement seems to be at the level of building church web sites and how to use Powerpoint effectively in worship. 

I&#039;ve never seen anyone do a study, for example, on ethical issues relating to technology in worship.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d agree with you, Brodie.</p>
<p>An even then, the ethical teaching people get is slanted towards ethics that come out of &#8220;personal morality&#8221; &#8211; so sexual ethics and &#8220;what would Jesus do?&#8221; in my personal situation. Little in the way of social ethics.</p>
<p>If technology is the &#8220;air that we breathe&#8221; in Western society then a more widespread approach to thinking about that environment is needed. And the church *should* be able to draw upon not just theologians but its own practitioners at the coal face in health, business, politics, education and science/technology to raise issues and help educate the church (and church leadership and theologians etc.) about our world.</p>
<p>Still, most engagement seems to be at the level of building church web sites and how to use Powerpoint effectively in worship. </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve never seen anyone do a study, for example, on ethical issues relating to technology in worship.</p>
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		<title>By: brodie</title>
		<link>http://jasonclark.ws/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&amp;feed=Articles+%28RSS2%29&amp;seed=http%3A%2F%2Fjasonclark.ws%2F2006%2F10%2F25%2Fhorizon-human-version-20%2F&amp;seed_title=Horizon%3A+Human+Version%26%23160%3B2.0/comment-page-1/#comment-6805</link>
		<dc:creator>brodie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Oct 2006 08:36:28 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Stephen - thanks for the correction, exponential is what I meant but not what I wrote. 
I think one of the things that worries me is ethics has become such a specialist area within theology that many people who do a theology degree and become thinkers and leaders within the church do not really have the tools to navigate through such complicated issues. We therefore often default to opinions which are often simplistic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stephen &#8211; thanks for the correction, exponential is what I meant but not what I wrote.<br />
I think one of the things that worries me is ethics has become such a specialist area within theology that many people who do a theology degree and become thinkers and leaders within the church do not really have the tools to navigate through such complicated issues. We therefore often default to opinions which are often simplistic.</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen Garner</title>
		<link>http://jasonclark.ws/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&amp;feed=Articles+%28RSS2%29&amp;seed=http%3A%2F%2Fjasonclark.ws%2F2006%2F10%2F25%2Fhorizon-human-version-20%2F&amp;seed_title=Horizon%3A+Human+Version%26%23160%3B2.0/comment-page-1/#comment-6797</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen Garner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Oct 2006 21:11:54 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Brodie, one of the most popular pieces recently in which an &quot;expert&quot; doesn&#039;t buy into the techno-optimism of the Singularity is Bill Joy&#039;s &quot;Why the future doesn&#039;t need us.&quot;

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/8.04/joy.html

The novels &quot;Prey&quot; by Michael Crichton and &quot;Blood Music&quot; by Greg Bear also look at when it all goes wrong in the current or near future.

BTW - the Singularity relies upon exponential technological developent not linear development. This gives the Singularitarians their increasingly compressed time scale.

A related, but off the topic, theme would be how pastoral ministry interacts with decisions that ordinary people have to make in the face of emerging biotechnology and information technology. 

For the academically minded, Karen Lebacqz&#039; paper &quot;Bioethicsâ€”Eleven Approaches&quot; in Dialog: A Journal of Theology, 43/2 (Summer 2004) looked at the pastoral implications for each different approach with respect to patients receiving medical care.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brodie, one of the most popular pieces recently in which an &#8220;expert&#8221; doesn&#8217;t buy into the techno-optimism of the Singularity is Bill Joy&#8217;s &#8220;Why the future doesn&#8217;t need us.&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/8.04/joy.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/8.04/joy.html</a></p>
<p>The novels &#8220;Prey&#8221; by Michael Crichton and &#8220;Blood Music&#8221; by Greg Bear also look at when it all goes wrong in the current or near future.</p>
<p>BTW &#8211; the Singularity relies upon exponential technological developent not linear development. This gives the Singularitarians their increasingly compressed time scale.</p>
<p>A related, but off the topic, theme would be how pastoral ministry interacts with decisions that ordinary people have to make in the face of emerging biotechnology and information technology. </p>
<p>For the academically minded, Karen Lebacqz&#8217; paper &#8220;Bioethicsâ€”Eleven Approaches&#8221; in Dialog: A Journal of Theology, 43/2 (Summer 2004) looked at the pastoral implications for each different approach with respect to patients receiving medical care.</p>
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		<title>By: dh</title>
		<link>http://jasonclark.ws/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&amp;feed=Articles+%28RSS2%29&amp;seed=http%3A%2F%2Fjasonclark.ws%2F2006%2F10%2F25%2Fhorizon-human-version-20%2F&amp;seed_title=Horizon%3A+Human+Version%26%23160%3B2.0/comment-page-1/#comment-6793</link>
		<dc:creator>dh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Oct 2006 21:02:02 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>To me it brings to mind many of the things the Book of Revelations indirectly talks about (aka one world government, mark of the beast, anti-Christ,etc.) I know many of the EC camp cringe at the terms but to me the coincidence of this subject in line with the Book of Revelations seems more than a coincidence. Not that this will be soon but it is fascinating to see events that show the &quot;growing pains&quot; of Christs impending return. It is wonderful to know that God could come now or He could come 1000 years from now but the point in all of this is to be anxious for Christs return and to agree with you Jason live for Him whatever the timeframe may be. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To me it brings to mind many of the things the Book of Revelations indirectly talks about (aka one world government, mark of the beast, anti-Christ,etc.) I know many of the EC camp cringe at the terms but to me the coincidence of this subject in line with the Book of Revelations seems more than a coincidence. Not that this will be soon but it is fascinating to see events that show the &#8220;growing pains&#8221; of Christs impending return. It is wonderful to know that God could come now or He could come 1000 years from now but the point in all of this is to be anxious for Christs return and to agree with you Jason live for Him whatever the timeframe may be. :)</p>
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		<title>By: Alan Mann</title>
		<link>http://jasonclark.ws/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&amp;feed=Articles+%28RSS2%29&amp;seed=http%3A%2F%2Fjasonclark.ws%2F2006%2F10%2F25%2Fhorizon-human-version-20%2F&amp;seed_title=Horizon%3A+Human+Version%26%23160%3B2.0/comment-page-1/#comment-6785</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan Mann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Oct 2006 17:23:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Stephen and Jon, thanks for the heads-up on some thinking about such things. I&#039;ll take a look.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stephen and Jon, thanks for the heads-up on some thinking about such things. I&#8217;ll take a look.</p>
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		<title>By: brodie</title>
		<link>http://jasonclark.ws/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&amp;feed=Articles+%28RSS2%29&amp;seed=http%3A%2F%2Fjasonclark.ws%2F2006%2F10%2F25%2Fhorizon-human-version-20%2F&amp;seed_title=Horizon%3A+Human+Version%26%23160%3B2.0/comment-page-1/#comment-6781</link>
		<dc:creator>brodie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Oct 2006 14:20:54 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>opps I seem to have lost most of what I was trying to say in the above comment so here goes again...Jason I agree that this is something we need to think through theologically, I do wonder however if the &quot;experts&quot; are a tad optimistic re reaching singularity. I didn&#039;t see the programme but read a related article on the BBC web site. The expert predicted that &quot;power&quot; of computers would continue to increase at the same rate as they have to date. I find it hard to accept such linear progress; there must be a tailing off in progress in this area. So yes perhaps singularity will occur, but by 2029? I very much doubt it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>opps I seem to have lost most of what I was trying to say in the above comment so here goes again&#8230;Jason I agree that this is something we need to think through theologically, I do wonder however if the &#8220;experts&#8221; are a tad optimistic re reaching singularity. I didn&#8217;t see the programme but read a related article on the BBC web site. The expert predicted that &#8220;power&#8221; of computers would continue to increase at the same rate as they have to date. I find it hard to accept such linear progress; there must be a tailing off in progress in this area. So yes perhaps singularity will occur, but by 2029? I very much doubt it.</p>
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		<title>By: brodie</title>
		<link>http://jasonclark.ws/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&amp;feed=Articles+%28RSS2%29&amp;seed=http%3A%2F%2Fjasonclark.ws%2F2006%2F10%2F25%2Fhorizon-human-version-20%2F&amp;seed_title=Horizon%3A+Human+Version%26%23160%3B2.0/comment-page-1/#comment-6780</link>
		<dc:creator>brodie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Oct 2006 14:17:30 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Jason I agree that this is something we need to think through theologically, I do wonder however if the \</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jason I agree that this is something we need to think through theologically, I do wonder however if the \</p>
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