To me the narrative doesn’t give much of a “point” in that there is an afterlife. It doesn’t make sense to think of hell as not being literal in that the Bible talks about eternal life andeternal death. I think the Bibleis clear.

I don’t see hell based on anything else but those who don’t Believe heart, soul and mind over to Christ. I don’t see the writers having trouble in that I Believe that Scripture is from God and is perfect. Hell exists for those who have already condemned themselves by being “…dead in their tresspass of sins”.

I believe strongly that hell is not figurative. I feel that Believers and non-Believers need to understand this. Why not believe it is not literal? It doesn’t make sense.

I am not doubting that people can have sincere beliefs in Jesus and miss the whole social/societal side and vice versa, people can believe that Christ is about economic/social/environmental liberation and miss the whole personal dimension.

From that point of view I think hell is a useful context – Christ’s kingdom is about rhe opposite to the kingdom of darkness and the hell that exists on earth – i.e. the social/public work of the gospel but God is also concerned about the personal and hell therefore acts a reminder to me that this is a serious personal business…

Far from questioning whether hell exists I am suggesting in this post whether we have asked the right questions about why hell exists – I think we as much as the bible writers did struggle to grasp hell as indeed heaven – we are therfore worry about what it is like and whether there is literal fire or not and maybe I am therefore guilty of missing the point (well I am usually guilty of that) so the post really was a beginning to unpack and reexamine what I beleive, why I beleive it and share that with folks like your kind self – of which I am profoundly grateful for allowing my mind to work even when my mouth is yapping :)

I think we both agree on hell as motivation for mission/and kingdom living and I guess that really is the point, we both agree hell is not much of a fun place so does it matter if we disagree about literal vs narrative interpretations?

Not for me anywho, but what i do appreciate is the critical thinking, patience and fun dialogue :)

On the hell part I like this, what do you think Paul? You seem to question whether or not hell exists when the Bible isclear and gives descriptions of who is there. With the Pharisees and the disciples that Jesus spoke with, they hadn’t had Faith yet. The Pharisees never had it and when presented with the Gospel never received it and the disciples they hadn’t Believed yet the conceptsof John 3 and further understanding mentioned in Paul regarding confession heart, soul and mind and Belief that Jesus is God and will rise again. I still don’t understand how Hell can actually be looked at hell. If you get my drift. How can it be generous inclusive when the Bible gives no account of redemption after death and no other way of Salvation but by Faith in Christ alone? While popular mythogy iswrong in that it is good people go to heaven bad people go to hell. It is more those without Faith (Without Faith it is impossible to please God.) to Hell and with Faith heaven.

I too agree it motivates me to mission and taking Christ seriously, seriously enough to share my Faith so people don’t go there and also personally to be obedient to Christ for Sanctification thereafter and living for Him so others can be drawn to Christ so others can share with them for them particularly to receive Christ as well.

DH that might also help with your concerns – it’s not just a heart beleif, or a head belief but a life belief – which works out in word, deed and action?

Edward – thanks for your reflections on hell – I think you are right that it is not what popular mythology makes out – whether or not it does not exist or not, again I direct you to the link nr the start and the conversation that was had about univerlist view – it is very thought provoking stuff…

ultimately i come down on the side of a generous inclusive as I see that hell as a place for me in motivating me for mission and for taking Christ seriously – i think the mistake that christians have made is to focus hell on those outside the faith and not follow the example of Jesus who used it with his disciples or with the pharisees…

Where in the Bible does it say souls are not immortal? How can this be said when all references of heaven and hell in the Bible state “eternity”.

Paul in reference to 1 Cor. 15:52-54 isstating this inreference to why theresurrection from the dead of the Believer is necessary. If you look at the context of the passage back to verse 50 you can see that this message was in reference to the resurrection. If you read other passages it talks about the resurrection to eternal death and the resurrection to eternal life (referenced here in 1 Cor 15:50-54. We don’t put on immortality but that Paul is explainning why the resurrection from the dead and the transfiguration of those who are not physically dead yet is necessary. The context is so important.

The reason why Jesus said “do this” is because that was what got in the way of Belief. If the person truly Believed who Jesus was he would have “done” what Jesus said.

Works based Salvation gives people a false sense of security to think that we can have Faith on our own when it is by the power of the Holy Spirit initially with a Belief response to that revelation for Salvation.

I guess Paul we shouldn’t trust our experiences. Faith isn’t based on feeling but Faith is based on understanding who God says He is. It helps a little but I still think it can lead to heart and soul Faith but it says in God’s Word heart, soul and mind to Christ.

So Paul, your concern is that modern leads to people who have soul and mind over to God but not their heart. My concern for PM nature of belief is that it leads to heart and soul but not with their mind. Does that make sense? To me all that matters is the heart, soul and mind over to Christ and that there is a moment whenever that is, if the person isa true Believer, where they can say (confess) those correctly from God’s Word by the power of the Holy Spirit that they received by Faith.

lets all chill out…